A Conversation with Shain Shapiro Founder of Sound Diplomacy and Author of This Must Be The Place.
The following interview was edited for clarity.
TWE: Could you please introduce yourself by telling me your name, a random fact about you, and a brief backstory of your life?
Shain: My name is Shain Shapiro. I am originally from Canada and have lived in the UK for almost 20 years. I have worked in the music industry for my entire career, and a fun fact about me is that I am a pescatarian.
TWE: In 20 words or less, what is Sound Diplomacy?
Shain: Sound Diplomacy is an economic consulting company that works with cities and governments on culture nighttime economy and music.
Walk me through the reasoning behind music strategy and why it has an overarching effect on music, tourism, city branding, city policy, etc.
The purpose of a music strategy is to integrate music into the economic, social, and wider community strategy of a place. When we think about music as an economy in itself and how it intersects with the wider community, we often realize that there isn't enough data to make informed decisions about how music works, how it functions, and how to invest in it in cities. A music strategy collects data that links music to wider city planning and policy, including how we make decisions about investing, which areas to prioritize, and what to promote. This data and evidence form the backbone of a music strategy.
In your 2015 Ted Talk, you talked about “Bands are small business & songs are products” Why is it that as artists we don’t see ourselves as small businesses even though we are? Why is it frowned upon to treat music as a business and not as this “what good for the greater good type of thing”
One of the key aspects of my job is to serve as a translator. It's often all about the language we use. For instance, I like to think of a music venue as an accelerator or an incubator, where each band is essentially a business and their songs are their intellectual property that are being incubated in this accelerator hub. We only need one successful app to make the entire ecosystem successful. However, we face a real challenge with language when discussing music. Often, we approach the topic from a negative perspective, underestimating our value and impact. This is a significant issue that I have to address every day. We must recognize our worth and appreciate how vital music is to our lives. Imagine a world without music - it would certainly suck.
In your 2015 Ted Talk you mentioned this “Music generates new revenue without impacting with taxes & it generates wealth without depercating wealth” What did you mean by this quote and do you agree with it 9 years later?
Music does generate new Revenue without impacting taxes what I mean by that is well obviously it does impact taxes like any sector in any place but I truly believe that music does not depreciate wealth because music is addictive music is part of our life in every way, yeah it is ubiquitous, and we don't tend to think about it very much unless we're staring it in the face. so yes I do agree with the quote but 9 years later I have a lot more data to demonstrate what it means. just because one artist is successful does not mean another artist is less successful. and when we incorporate music more into development into the decisions that we make we build data sets to understand how it links to the decisions that we make to Levy to understand and to invest in our cities and places and expand tax bases.
In 50 words or less explain to me what you mean by the title of your book “ This Must Be The Place” Why should it matter to someone who doesn’t listen to music or isn’t as dedicated to music as us?
The title of the book is a reference to one of my favorite bands the Talking Heads and you know I hope that the book resonates with anyone who just is interested in improving the places where they live I'm not trying to Elevate music above anything else I am not I'm just simply trying to explain that music has an impactful and important relationship in place and City development.
I was reading in Chp 1 of your book you talked about “Music can promote or reduce fairness, from managing the impact of gentrification to measuring the impact of sustainable development around the world” Explain to me what you mean by this. Do you that music, gentrification, and sustainability can coexist in the city & culture ecosystem?
The term gentrification is very complicated and is used Often by people who tend not to understand what it means and what it doesn't. gentrification is not always entirely a bad thing it's the management of gentrification often that exacerbates the negative impacts of growth so the whole point of investing in one's music economy is to understand it that means not prioritizing any genre or any discipline or any part of town or any community member, it is about genuinely understanding holistically and in detail music and its impact in a place so music like anything else can exacerbate inequality any human-made instruments so to speak can exacerbate inequality, it is how it's managed, and the data that is collected to understand it best, and a music strategy is all about data and evidence about all music and then we can make better decisions about what to prioritize in terms of growth and have greater insight into what causes or what could cause gentrification in a place. it is very disappointing that so many places develop and leverage music and culture and then they become victims of their success so to speak and that can be remedied if we want it to be.
In your traveling and research, what cities do you think are implementing what you teach and what you’d perceive as a well-rounded music strategy? And how could we as regular people approach our local governments to model these ideal cities?
It's important to view music as a tool that can be used to achieve various goals, rather than just a means to an end. By asking bigger questions such as how we can create sustainable jobs, fight inequality and antisocial behavior, increase tourism, and support community cohesion, we can find ways to include music in our efforts and achieve success. To do this, we need to engage with the community and the music industry as widely as possible. Simply increasing the number of events, festivals, and music industry activities may not always be the best approach. Instead, we should view music as a versatile tool that can be used in many different ways to achieve a wide range of goals.
What still drives you to want to change how we view music and how cities can adopt music-friendly policies? What's your motivational why?
I truly believe that music is the most undervalued thing that we have to bring us together we need more things to bring us together we live in an incredibly polarized world and it's not going to help us address and solve the big problems that we face such as you know the climate and the crisis of the climate this is what drives me.
When everything is all said and done and you’ve accomplished everything that you’ve done do you want to be remembered or recognized?
I genuinely hope to have made a difference in convincing someone that music matters more than they thought before they met me.
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